Sunday, May 27, 2012

Threats to Our Families

I want to begin by saying that this post represents my own opinions and is not the official position or doctrine of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.  Because I have no ecclesiastical authority, what I say should be understood as advice from a friend rather than preaching from a pulpit.  I also want to add the disclaimer that my assumptions are based off of my observation of people and cultural trends and is not based on any empirical research.

In Revelation 3:15-16, the Savior speaking to the Laodicean members of the church said, "I would thou wert cold or hot; so then because thou art lukewarm I will spue thee out of my mouth."  I have heard this fence sitting described as trying to live in Zion but keep a summer home in Babylon.  When the Savior was on the Earth, He discouraged half hearted followers.  At a certain point He taught doctrine that was "a hard saying," and His followers murmured and said "who can hear it [the hard saying]?"  When this murmuring became apparent, the Savior could have chosen to back off, He could have relaxed a little and softened His words.  Instead He asked "doth this offend you?"  Then He told them that if they were murmuring they were not listening to the spirit because "the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit and they are life."  The Savior could not relax, He could not back down because His words were the way to eternal life.  If there were an easier way He would have offered it, but there isn't.  This confrontation caused many of his disciples to "walk no more with him."  However, those who stayed understood more fully who He was, and who they were because of it.  Jesus asked these devoted followers if they would also leave and Peter answered for them and said "to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life."  There will always be those who are offended at the truth, but that doesn't mean that we should relax it or soften it in order to accommodate them.  The strength that the apostles gained from hearing and following truth was worth the sacrifice of the lukewarm followers.  Therefore, we should never be afraid to speak the truth even when there are those who may be offended.  The strength that we and others who are willing to hearken to the spirit will get from the truth outweighs the offense that may be received.  My purpose in writing this post is to help us to choose sides.  I feel that the time is fast approaching when choosing sides will be irrelevant because the damage will have already been done.

In the first battle of the Civil War, The First Battle of Bull Run, many civilians came out with picnic baskets and blankets to watch as the Union soldiers beat up the rebels and end the little insurrection that would become the Civil War.  The Union soldiers would have won had it not been for a large group of confederate reinforcements that pushed back the Union lines back and turned it into a rout.  Many civilians who came to watch the battle also fled in panic with the Union soldiers and were killed along side them.  Had the North won that battle, the Civil War could have been over before it began and would not have been the tragedy that it was.  My point in bringing up this particular battle is that there could have been massive Union reinforcements to match the Confederates.  Imagine if all of the civilians who showed up with picnic baskets had shown up with rifles.  In the battle for the souls of men, we cannot afford to be civilians.  If we choose to sit on the sidelines and watch the battle, we will suffer the same consequences as those who we fail to support.  We cannot avoid these consequences just by avoiding involvement or confrontation.  As the popular hymn says "who's on the Lord's side who?  Now is the time to show.  We ask it fearlessly, who's on the Lord's side who?"  The parable of the wheat and the tares is also instructive.  While we are not entirely sure what a "tare" is, most biblical scholars believe that it is a weed that is common in the middle east that looks almost identical to wheat but does not bear fruit.  So we may ask ourselves "am I a tare? Do I look like a Christian and sound like a Christian but inwardly wish that Christ would agree with the world so that I wouldn't have to choose?  Do I wish that Christ would agree with ME so that I wouldn't have to change?"  The battle lines have been drawn.  Who's on the Lord's side?

This battle rages in our Universities and in the media, but the front lines are in our own homes.  There are two areas in particular where I see members of Christ's church choosing the world's side.  These two areas are the gay marriage debate and extreme feminism.  First, I want to speak in defense of some of the sentiments that lead to these choices.  The support of gay marriage comes from one of two places.  The first is a libertarian (not the political party, but the mindset aka libertarianism vs. authoritarianism) that places consequences on individuals and in essence says "do what you will as long as I am not affected," or "live and let live." Christ teaches independence and personal responsibility and so this sentiment comes from the right place.  The other place where this support comes from the misunderstanding of the commandment to love our neighbors.  Those who follow this line of thinking feel that if they were to deny the "right" of marriage to homosexual couples, those people might feel bad.  They then feel that if they are causing another person to feel bad that they are not loving him/her.  Companion to this train of thought is the idea of respect.  If we love somebody then we should respect him/her.  Their definition of respect is to set every belief system equal to each other.  No beliefs are better or worse, and to say that one lifestyle or belief system is better is to be disrespectful of everyone else.  This sentiment also comes from the right place.  I will return to the gay marriage debate, but first I want to focus on what I call extreme feminism.

The major source of extreme feminism comes from the desire for equality.  This is also a very good sentiment.  However, to be equal does not mean to be cloned or to be the same.  When Jefferson penned the words "all men are created equal" he did not mean equality in the way that Marx meant it.  Equality means an equal chance to improve oneself and one's station.  It does not mean that everyone should have the same jobs and responsibilities.  Before The Family: A Proclamation To the World states "fathers and mothers are obligated to help one another as equal partners," it clearly defines roles and responsibilities.  It says that men are to preside over their homes with the huge qualifier "in love and righteousness," and are to provide and for and protect their families and that women are primarily responsible for the nurture of children.  Now let me talk about the amazing changes that the feminist movement has helped bring about.  Nowhere does the proclamation say that women are primarily responsible for cooking and cleaning and that men are responsible for sitting on the couch watching TV while their wives cook and clean.  Nowhere does it say that fathers are primarily responsible for ignoring their children when they are home leaving women to feel overwhelmed by the enormous task of raising children essentially alone.  Feminism has shown that men can do dishes, much to our disappointment and the rejoicing of our wives.  I personally believe that the emancipation of women has been for the most part an amazing thing.

Since I have such a high regard for the changes and the re definition of some gender roles as a result of the feminist movement, I have labeled the destructive and dangerous feminism as extreme feminism.  Extreme feminism is that movement that seeks to displace motherhood as an honorable career choice.  Extreme feminism would destroy the distinctions between masculine and feminine traits.  It would not stop at equality but seek to enthrone women in the oppressive chairs that men once sat in.  It would reduce manhood to nothing more than pathetic imbeciles that are little more than pets to the women they serve (see any sitcom since the Brady Bunch).  Extreme feminism would eventually do away with marriage as an annoying inconvenience.  Birth control and abortion are the hallmarks of extreme feminism.  A world where a woman has complete control of her body and can transgress the laws of God with no consequence.

Extreme feminism is making headway.  Unwed mothers are no longer encouraged to form family units by being married.  Indeed single mothers are praised for their strength and independence.  This is not altogether bad because many women become single mothers through no fault of their own because of abusive or destructive husbands or because of the death of spouses.  However, the growing trend of single mothers does not come from those circumstances so much as women (and men) getting divorces for trivial reasons and women becoming pregnant out of wedlock.  Sometimes social pressure is a good thing when it discourages practices that are destructive for children.  Ostracizing women for becoming pregnant out of wedlock is now rightly considered wrong.  Unfortunately accepting and encouraging women who become pregnant out of wedlock has done far more damage than the shunning that they used to receive.  Extreme feminism is also making headway among those who are married.  It is becoming so much more common for women to seek employment outside the home.  When they do so they are putting their primary responsibility of nurturing their children lower on the priority list.  I have heard many women say, "I can't go to this event or that game or be there for my kids after school because I have to work."  I have seldom heard, "I can't go to this meeting or complete this project because I have to spend time nurturing my kids."  In the overwhelming majority of cases when a woman starts to work, her boss takes precedence over her kids.  Family obligations are seen as flexible, work hours and deadlines are not.  Men face the same predicament, but then their primary responsibility is to provide for their families.  When both women and men work, their bank accounts win, but their children lose.  We need to choose between bigger homes and nicer cars and our children's future.  Women need to return to their homes to be with their children, not their dishes and laundry but their children.  Men need to facilitate that.  The most amazing blessing that my family has ever received is when my wife failed to get a job when we were newly married.  I wanted her to work to help support me through school.  When she didn't get a job we were forced to live on what I made alone.  Because of that, when we had our son, we didn't have to worry about paying our bills when we lost her income.  Husbands and wives need to establish their lives so that mothers don't "have" to work.  That is how we choose sides.  We ignore what the world says and return mothers to their children.  Wouldn't it be wonderful if day cares went out of business?  That is my idea of a perfect world.

Now I want to return to gay marriage.  Heavenly Father's plan is about helping us to become perfect.  It is about helping us be like Him.  This desire to improve us and change us trumps the lesser values of respect and tolerance.  God is love.  If God, who is love, flooded the Earth to accomplish His purposes, maybe our definition of "love" as making nobody feel bad needs to be revised.  Jesus Christ, our perfect example of love called one of His closest friends satan, called a woman a dog, called pharisees hypocrites, blind and children of Hell, and then suffered and died so that we could all be very different than we are now.  While the desire to love that leads us to support gay marriage is good, the love that we should be seeking is very different from the watered down version the world would give us.  Pure love is unselfish.  Pure love cannot be content with allowing someone to feel good about sinning when they are throwing away eternal happiness.  Gender is an essential element to "pre-mortal, mortal and post-mortal existence" and cannot be changed just because it is inconvenient.  I have never experienced same gender attraction and so cannot even hope to judge or even understand what those people are going through as they search for acceptance and love.  We can love and accept them as children of God, but that does not mean that we stop calling sins sins (it is important to note that the sin comes from acting on homosexual impulses.  Having those impulses is not a sin, but a trial that may or may not be overcome. Many people have temptations and predispositions to various sins, but do not sin unless they act on them.  My heart goes out to those who do not sin and have to deal with this issue.).

In an effort to call evil good, some people are calling for the recognition of gay marriage by governments.  There are many reasons to oppose gay marriage (see http://blog.speakupmovement.org/university/uncategorized/i-was-wrong-about-marriage/), but really the main reason to oppose it is because the Lord through His prophet has declared that He opposes it.  It is contrary to His plan.  Despite any justification that can be given by those who want to straddle the fence on this issue, the Lord has made His position quite clear.  He has also made His position clear on the role of mothers and fathers and the sanctity of the family.  We have to pick sides.  We cannot be spectators.  We stay silent so often because we are afraid of what others might say to us or about us if we stand up.  The consequences or not standing up are far worse.  Who's on the Lord's side who?  Now is the time to show.



21 comments:

  1. I never comment anonymously but this situation requires it.

    Your basic premise is wrong. What you are saying is there should be no fence sitters, very similar to McConkie and Kimball -like thinking; however, you are missing the main points of Christ's teachings: 1) He is the judge, 2) love others unconditionally. Basically, you are saying that YOU are the judge and can determine when others are making right/wrong choices. That is very presumptuous. As for specifics in your post.

    Re: Extreme feminism. I find it ironic that you quote from the Proclamation on the Family without recognizing that it focuses primarily on women and what their responsibilities are. I always find it funny that men in their "presiding" roles tell women exactly what they must do, because naturally that is what God wants. To say that women must nurture in order to fill their divine role is to ignore how men often spend inordinate amounts of time at work and/or callings and do not spend time with families. Basically, putting women in the "nurturing" role is to have an eternal baby-sitter for kids while men do the important work for the kingdom. Oh, sure, you'll argue that a mother's work is the most important but that argument falls flat when you consider the rest of what you are saying. To infer that women are a specific type -nurturers and mothers - at their core, is to place all women in one slot. That is wrong and hurtful. All women are NOT homemakers nor should they be, that's like saying ALL men should be lawyers/doctors/successful business men when there are many other avenues that men wish to pursue when entering the workforce.

    I can tell you from personal experience that staying home has been not only a threat to my mental stability but a threat to my marriage. I do NOT like it and I NEVER will. That doesn't mean I don't like my kids, because I could also assume YOU don't like your kids since you go to work, it means that staying home is NOT right for me and I should not be forced into that role because some Priesthood holder tells me I should.

    "Birth control and abortion are the hallmarks of extreme feminism. A world where a woman has complete control of her body and can transgress the laws of God with no consequence. "

    So, you are calling all women who have sex outside of marriage sluts. Let me ask you, as a man, where is your responsibility when you decide to have sex with someone and they get pregnant? You do not have responsibility. Birth control and abortion have given women tools they need to not only have control over their bodies - something that men already have - but to make decisions that are life-saving. Let me ask you, would you disagree with abortion when a women has a life-threatening condition? Or is raped? Or is 15 and was coerced into sex by a 19-year-old? I love how simplistic you make it seem when, really, these issues are deeply complicated and involve a women's body (because pregnancy requires women to give EVERYTHING) not a man's opinions about what she should/shouldn't do. As for birth control, do you really think it leads to excess sex? What about the men to blame here? Birth control came at a time when it was acceptable for men to have mistresses and prostitutes. I noticed, though, that you didn't mention that in your post; you only pointed to how extreme feminism has ruined families.

    If you are really going to talk about the forces that are ruining families, why not talk about the real issues? The incessant hatred of women and their choices? The repression of men in all areas of the world? The rapes? Why do you focus on what YOU consider to be ruinous because it threatens YOUR worldview?

    This post was not only narrow-minded but completely against anything that Christ taught or what we have learned since then.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. To anonymous.

      First let me tell you that I respect your right to your opinion. However, as a woman and a mother who has worked outside the home a lot of my life, I disagree. Your last paragraph was the key. Christ basically said all of the things that you are disagreeing with. Yes Christ did teach love for all men, but he did not teach letting people do whatever they wanted. He taught perfect obedience to the laws that God established. And "what we have learned since then" does not make those laws invalid.
      Also, Christopher's point was not that all women should stay home. It was that all women should have the choice to stay home. That men have the primary responsibility to provide for the family. If a woman chooses to work outside of the home because she is not content to simply be a stay at home mother, then that is for her to deal with. But if a woman is forced to work outside of the home because of the choice of a more extravagant lifestyle or because her husband does not provide properly, then that is on the husband. Also, if a woman is forced to work outside of the home because she is a single parent then that is threatening our families.
      Women, and men, who choose to have sex outside of marriage are guilty of the sin of fornication and/or adultery. Those are the facts. If that is the same as calling them sluts then so be it. Sex is a beautiful act when engaged in under the bounds of a loving nurturing marriage. Outside of marriage it is just a physical act that brings pain and regret. There would be no need for abortion if people would simply keep this law. And why is it that the baby has to pay the price for the actions of the adults? If a girl is raped, there are many people who can't have children of their own who would love to raise the child. Proponents of abortion never take into account that they are killing a child. Yet those same people would be horrified if a mother killed her week old baby because she couldn't take care of it. That is hypocritical in my mind. Murder is murder. Science has proven time and again that a child is alive from the moment of conception. People who believe in God and creation know that a baby has a spirit from the moment of conception. Anyone who has ever felt the movement of a child inside of them knows that child is alive way before birth.
      I find it interesting that you attack Christopher because he is a man writing from a man's point of view. Would you have been as critical of a woman writing the exact same thing? Because if I could have written this as well as he did I would have. I agree with what he said 100%. I have made some very serious mistakes in my life. I would love to see other people learn from those mistakes and make their families stronger than mine.
      Mindy Riley

      Delete
    2. I can understand why you would think from this post that I am putting myself in the judgement seat. Individual circumstances need individual compassion. However, true principles are true principles. If I were to call you a sinner for leaving the home then I would be judging you and in the wrong. Saying that women working outside the home is destructive to families is the truth. Saying that women are "primarily responsible for the nurture of their children" is revealed doctrine. As far as the responsibility of men in cases of fornication/adultery... my post never abdicated them of this responsibility. Again from the proclamation "those who violate covenants of chastity... will one day stand accountable before God." That means men and women. Birth control and abortion eliminate consequences for men and women. Unwanted pregnancy used to be a deterrent to violations of the law of chastity. That is no longer the case. Men are just as guilty of abortion as the women when they advocate it in order to absolve themselves of responsibility.

      Me and other men didn't put women in the nurturing role. God did. If you have a problem with that I suggest you take it up with Him. Men are to help their wives in those responsibilities. When I said that extreme feminism is ruining families I didn't mean that it was only ruining women. Men have been satisfied with becoming the imbecile pets that I described. Male enrollment in college is down and male enrollment in video games is up. The problems of extreme feminism are not exclusively advocated by women, but by men as well. To call extreme feminism destructive is not sexist. You have chosen to make me "a man" out to be the enemy.

      I find it interesting that you say that my post is against what Christ said. It is interesting because most people who use Christ to back up their worldly philosophies have no meaningful idea of what He really said. Contrary to popular belief, Christ was not a permissive pushover who preached that we should all let everybody do whatever they want in the name of love. Following the Savior has never been easy or convenient. Just because it is difficult for a woman to stay home doesn't make it right for her to abdicate her responsibilities in the home. My wife is an excellent example of this. I actually enjoy being home with my kids. She doesn't. That does not change our roles and responsibilities. Instead of deciding that because one dislikes their given responsibility that they should abandon it, we should be praying that the Lord will give us strength to fulfill the responsibilities that HE has given us.

      This post was about choosing sides. We are either with Christ and His prophets or we are not. There is no middle ground. On any issue we are either basking in the light of revealed truth or we are wandering in the darkness of destructive worldly trends.

      As I said before, compassion needs to be extended to individuals even when truth is taught generally. Mistakes that have been made can be repented of. Through the marvelous gift of the atonement we can be cleansed from sin and have our hearts changed. Those who are hurting can be healed. We can receive the strength to fulfill our God mandated responsibilities.

      Delete
    3. Mindy,

      This is a direct quote from Chris, "Saying that women working outside the home is destructive to families is the truth. Saying that women are "primarily responsible for the nurture of their children" is revealed doctrine." So, I'm afraid that you are wrong in assuming that he is not saying that women shouldn't work outside the home because that's exactly what he is saying.

      Chris,

      All this talk of the world getting worse and such is really ridiculous. The LDS (and other Christian) church's view that the world is getting more wicked is not validated by history. I could recommend several books that debunk this myth, but, more importantly, there are several ways the world is better than it has ever been. For example, at the beginning of the 20th century the average life span was 30 for men and a little lower for women. Childbirth was almost equatable with death for women. The rich were incredibly rich and the poor incredibly poor (class distinction), there was no middle class. Diseases like polio and typhoid raged and killed everyone, in fact to live past childhood was amazing. And child mortality was almost 50%. Based on these stats, life has improved significantly.

      Morality wise, people have shown how much more compassionate they are now than they were then. We are no longer a war-mongering people, many of us (despite some president's actions) would rather choose diplomatic channels and peace to war and blood shed. There are many international programs (like the WHO) that are working to improve lives in destitute countries. Racism is not longer institutionalized (even if it still exists) and women can vote. I just don't see how the world is getting worse.

      Delete
    4. Continued....

      As for women who work outside the home damaging families, research does not support your claim. For example, Zick, Bryant, and Osterbacka (2001) found that outcomes were either similar or more positive for children whose mother's worked outside the home. The negative effects of mothers working are associated with low-income, poor daycare options, and dissatisfaction with work - since many of these are related to low SES, the negative effects are clearly tied to income and class status. (See http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0049089X00906859) The research also suggests that children of mothers who stay at home and are not happy tend to have very poor outcomes and parents who do not interact with them as much. So, how is this damaging?

      Now, I do not think that all women should stay at home, but I will counter your argument that it is damaging for women to enter the workplace. It seems to me that you are scared of the competition from women in the workplace, which is well-founded because research clearly shows that women tend to work harder than men, although this is explained by the fact that women MUST work harder than men because the inherent stereotypes that exist in the workplace and the very real glass ceiling. (See http://www.virginia.edu/uvatoday/newsRelease.php?id=3370, I couldn't find the research article but will look for it later).

      As for gay marriage ruining families, this has also been debunked by research. (See http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0277539501001935 and http://psycnet.apa.org/psycinfo/1998-07094-010) The effects of bias against homosexuals is more damaging for children than parenting is since parenting is similarly beneficial for kids in both heterosexual and homosexual couples.

      As for what the prophets have said, they have been wrong before (re, the black issue and polygamy) and are wrong this time. We don't belong to a church that believes the leaders are infallible, that is what we make fun of Catholics for, no we believe that leaders are subject to their own interpretations just as much as we are. Thus, I know Pres. Hinckley was wrong about the Proclamation on the Family and other prophets are wrong about their stance on homosexuality and women. If I felt the brethren were infallible, I wouldn't stay. I am not a fence sitter, I stand up for what is right and refuse to let people like you and the brethren come between me and God. It's easy to pull the whole, "God said so" when you don't pray about these issues individually. I have and felt very sincerely that the prophets are wrong on this and I refuse to let their perspective skew my vision of a Christ-centered world.

      Delete
    5. Threatened by women working? What an incredible assumption. Yes, that is why I wrote this. A woman replaced me at work and now I am bitter. In order to get rid of sexist thinking, we need to stop throwing around baseless, sexist accusations.

      As far as the world getting better... I will agree that the world is getting healthier physically. However in the eternal scheme of things things are getting much worse. Between atheism, materialism and immorality our Father is losing His precious children at an alarming, unprecedented rate. The decline of infant mortality has just declined the number of precious souls that are saved in the Celestial Kingdom by default. Longer lives have not led us any closer to God. I would argue that in an eternal perspective, we would be hard pressed to find a time when things were worse than they are now. When we reduce religious arguments to worldly perspective, we undermine their truth.

      From reading the Zick et al. research, particularly the literature review, it would appear that social science is clueless as to the effects of women working outside the home. One thing has been demonstrated repeatedly and that is that when mothers leave the home, fathers do not compensate in time or commitment. Research has continually shown that father involvement has positive effects on children in all areas so this is a tragedy. Compounding this tragedy is the fact that because of divorce and single motherhood fathers are increasingly absent. The research that shows that working mothers have no negative effect on children as a rule measure negative consequences by children's grades. The negative effects that I am talking about are not necessarily kids' grades.

      My own research on the subject also shows that there is no statistically significant difference between the grades of kids who have both parents working and those who have a traditional set up. However there are significant increases of teen sex and less teen involvement in religious activity. The literature about the effects of working mothers is contradictory and fragmented and therefore inconclusive. Just because Zick et al. feel that they have discovered the answers does not dismiss the rest of the research that contradicts their conclusions.

      As far as whether or not homosexual parents have negative effects on children... The Clarke article used college focus groups and media articles as its source of data... hardly conclusive. As far as the other research, there are no sample sizes large enough to draw general conclusions. Homosexual parenting is a new phenomenon and there are just not enough cases to do any meaningful research.

      That was my secular defense of your secular argument. The jury may still be out in social science but the prophets have made themselves very clear on both of these issues. Saying that the church's view on blacks and the priesthood and polygamy were wrong is akin to saying that Moses was wrong with the law of Moses. Different circumstances call for different policies. That doesn't make the former policies wrong. Pres. Hinckley didn't come up with the proclamation on his own. It was coauthored by the entire first presidency and quorum of the twelve. When things like that are submitted, it is not opinion, it is doctrine as binding as anything in the Bible, BoM and D&C.

      What does this "Christ-centered" world look like? A Christ centered world is not a world where everybody does whatever they feel like doing. His mission was not to make everybody feel good about doing whatever they want to do. His mission was to bring us home to His Father. That can only happen on principles of righteousness as outlined in the scriptures and modern revelation. Your "vision" will not change this eternal truth. The plan that everybody gets celestial glory no matter what was proposed by somebody other than Christ.

      Delete
  2. Love this post! I'm completely frustrated with those that claim the religious are using their religion to justify being what they call unChristlike. They are taking one facet of Christ's teachings....love one another....and twisting it to make themselves feel better for doing what they feel compelled to do.

    I have been compelled to do many things in my life that were not good for me, for my future family (before I had kids) and for my present family. I have always had a strong desire in my heart to do the right thing, but I often mess up despite that desire. I have realized that I have sinned and have had to do very difficult things to repent and overcome (if you could even say I will totally overcome the effects of some of the mistakes I've made) those mistakes. I expect everyone else to have to go through the same process as me and I don't expect the world to change to accommodate my sinful ways. Talk about equality...that is true equality. Everyone works through their issues and grows from it. The universal truth is if you deny the laws of God, you will suffer. You can decorate it all up like a cake, but you can't choose the consequences. God is in control of the consequences. So you do have a choice...obey or suffer the consequences. They won't disappear because man's government paints them into a pretty picture.

    ReplyDelete
  3. Great post. While I disagree that birth control and abortion should be put in the same category, I think it's important for people to know that the GREATEST commandment in the law was NOT to love one another, but to love GOD first and foremost. And how do we show our love to God? Keep his commandments, which include doing our best to follow our gender roles and show zero acceptance/tolerance of homosexual actions. If we put love of God below our love for others, we will fail to reach exaltation.

    ReplyDelete
  4. Im an LDS woman who stays home with my children....and all I can say about this is that you're incorrect on many counts in this post. I appreciate the fact that you wrote in your introduction that this is the gospel according to you, because it certainly isn't the Gospel. I think it's important to remember that God and Christ have some special privileges when it comes to calling people out when they sin. I echo the sentiments of the above anonymous poster, that separation of church and state are EXTREMELY important when governing nations who's populace represent many different beliefs. Im not a fence sitter, I just feel strongly and differently than you do.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I would like to ask what was said on here that certainly isn't the Gospel?

      Delete
  5. I saw this blog post displayed on my friends FB page, in support of what you wrote. I took the time to see what it was that was so profound and wonderful and was gravely disappointed by every single word written. I then noticed a comment from another reader on my friends FB page post and feel that, though he only grazes the surface of the things that truly need discussion, the few points he does make, have far more merit for discussion in his small paragraph, than anything written in your blog-novel. see quote and please, feel free to respond.

    "When the Good Book, or LDS doctrine, is used to support such fallacious logic, it is important to remember that both of those bodies of doctrine have been edited, decade after decade, to omit things which are now socially unconscionable. Where did the wording that blacks are the marked of Cain go? Or the early King James assertions on marriage as a form of woman-ownership? And if the prophet of a given church is to be held up as speaking for God, then why can interracial couples marry nowadays? Why can women hold political office and vote, since God's prophets opposed these things in the past? Fence sitting is dangerous when grievous harm is being done to other people, or when they are being oppressed. Let folks love how they will, and let women opine dangerously and embrace radical feminism if they want-- all these folks are doing is trying to know themselves the way God made them."

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I should have made clear that this post was directed to members of the LDS church since that has been the almost exclusive audience of the blog until now. Had I known that it was going to spread to those not of my faith who did not have the understanding of prophets and modern revelation I would have attempted to show why others should join us in the defense of family. "Fence sitting is dangerous when grievous harm is being done to other people... Let folks love how they will..." While I hope to invite others to come unto Christ, repent of their sins and be healed, I understand that most will not choose to do so. Therefore I could care less if women embrace radical feminism as long as there are no children. I have no problem with homosexuals having relationships with each other- but the only reason to pursue marriage is in order to have equal footing with straight couples in adoption. The argument to let everybody do whatever they want is based on the fundamentally flawed assumption that marriage as an institution is about the gratification and fulfillment of the adults and not the stable framework needed to successfully raise children. Those who are threatened with grievous harm are the children. If the world wants to call into question the advice of prophets, let me call into question the advice of social science which changes its position on issues every decade or so as new research comes to light. In the 60s and 70s "research" showed that single parenting had no ill effect on children. 30 years later we know the drastic problems that the disintegration of marriage has created. Those who had the warnings of prophets concerning divorce back then failed to do anything substantial to rescue marriage and now it is too late. We would have to wait 30 more years to really understand the impact of homosexual parents on children and I don't want to wait until the damage has been done.

      Delete
    2. What I am getting from your response to the above comment is that you fear for the children that may be raised under a gay marriage, yes? Because this strays from your original post wherein you seem more concerned with the fact that it is simply a sin. I am interested to see these studies from the 60's that you speak of, as I have never encountered them and would like to enlighten myself. If you could supply me with links or more specific information so that I may do so, I would be much obliged. Studies aside, I would like to touch on situations and outcomes I have personally witnessed. I am friends with and interact with several adults who were raised in single parent homes and two adults that were raised under homosexual parenting and I am happy to report that ALL are successful, kind, considerate, lovely human beings that I maintain contact with and whose friendships I deeply treasure. One of those friends was raised by two fathers in Oregon and is now a 31 year old man with a wife and 3 gorgeous, polite children who all play an instrument and never fail to send a thank you card when I send them a birthday gift. My friend shows no sign of dysfunction or "damage" as you like to put it, from his childhood involving two male parents and HIS children show no negative signs stemming from it either. I also have a friend, a very close one in fact, who was raised by a mother and a father in the LDS church and though her parents relationship was as it is "supposed" to be. Heterosexual and recognized by a Temple recommend, they were in an unhappy marriage but refused divorce as a matter of religious principal. My friend, we'll call her Laura, has 2 sibling-- a brother who has been in and out of jail for the last 3 years and a sister who lives with an abusive boyfriend. She speaks often of how obvious it was that her parents were miserable, even though they tried to shield the children from their misery. She has commented on numerous occasions that she wishes her mother and father had parted ways years ago and pursued their own source of happiness, that she thinks her younger siblings as well as herself would have benefited greatly from that. So, I'm sorry, but when reading about your concerns and they ambiguous "studies" that you back them up with, I can't help but feel slightly irked. I have witnessed, personally, the very opposite result of what you fear.

      Delete
  6. I am afraid, I might be considered a fence sitter but there is more to this issue--that needs more thought,thinking and prayer to decide.Life does not have to always be black or white. Sometimes there must be a compromise. The Savior once said that Give onto caesar what belongs unto ceasar.I do agree with you that at some point we have to take a stand and cannot be lukewarm but whether that stand have to be this issue i don't know yet.When i consider this issue philosophically i lean toward a compromise but when i consider it in a religious context, i agree with you. I am not certain i know where i want to draw the line yet.But i must say tolerance and a love for God and humanity must supersede all the feeling we have. Does this mean that i condone the act, my answer will be no.

    Seth Baffoe

    ReplyDelete
  7. We live in a world in which many situations require us to make judgments that are often difficult. Yet the Savior gave the commandment to “judge not” our fellowman. How can we do this and still exercise good judgment in a world full of deception and corruption? We must judge well when making critical decisions in each phase of our life, such as choosing friends, finding an eternal companion, or choosing an occupation that will allow us to care for our family and serve the Lord. Although the Savior asked us not to judge others, He still expects us to use excellent judgment.
    Good judgment is needed not only in understanding people but also in facing decisions that often lead us to or away from our Heavenly Father. Many blessings in life are missed because worldly judgment was applied to what was really a spiritual decision. I would offer four guides for developing goodjudgment in making important decisions.
    First, put your own personal standards in alignment with the gospel of Jesus Christ. A person can never be a good judge without the gospel of Jesus Christ as a reference. The gospel has a long and successful record of guiding people to happiness. Some of the world’s ideas leave mankind adrift to try to define their own standards. Because of this, we hear phrases like “a new morality.” This phrase is deceptive! The standards of morality are eternal and have not changed; neither should we try to discover a new interpretation of them. For the youth these standards are written in the pamphlet For the Strength of Youth. These standards are clearly aligned with the gospel of Jesus Christ and are intended to continue through adult life. Perhaps it would be good for us as adults to study and apply this pamphlet to our lives.
    Second, listen to the messages of the living prophet. How many poor financial judgments would have been avoided had we listened to the years of advice given through our prophets about avoiding risky speculation and following a careful budget to avoid consumer debt? How many marriages would have been saved by using good judgment in avoiding media that lead to pornographic addiction and heartache?
    Third, cultivate with the Holy Spirit a relationship of listening. We are given the gift of the Holy Ghost after our baptism, but often we leave this gift on the shelf, forgetting that He will help us in the most important judgments of our lives. The Lord gave us this gift, knowing we would face difficult decisions in life. Listening to this voice is vital in developing good judgment.
    Christ said: “Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.” The peace that comes from listening to the Holy Spirit removes the fear of making a poor judgment in life.
    Fourth, keep the commandments. The willingness to keep God’s commandments opens to us many promised blessings. The Book of Mormon, in addition to being another testament of Jesus Christ, is a book about the results of keeping and not keeping commandments. The Lord said to Nephi in the second chapter of his first book, “Inasmuch as ye shall keep my commandments, ye shall prosper.”
    This same promise was repeated by almost every major prophet in the Book of Mormon. A thousand years of history is then recorded which bears witness that these things are true. And the same message applies to us today. Good judgment is best learned and practiced within the bounds the Lord sets by giving us commandments.
    I testify that when we face difficult decisions and follow these guidelines, we can know better how we should judge. In the name of Jesus Christ, amen.

    ReplyDelete
  8. Love one another. Don't be all judgey. Gross.

    ReplyDelete
  9. Can I just say that I appreciated your post. It saddens me to see other LDS members be so critical of you and what you have wrote. You did not judge anyone, but stated the truth. I took an entire class in college entitled "Work and Relationships in the home." We discussed many different aspects of how work effects families, in it we discussed "extreme feminism" and the destructive effects it can have on the family.


    On a more critical note to many of your replies, why have children if all your going to do is send them off to day care, clubs, and camps for you to work. (some people don't have a choice this is to those that do.) There is no such thing as "quality" vs "quantity" for your children. Your children need a quantity of quality time.
    As for same gender attractive..two stories for you:
    1. Principal of a school had some trouble with a very promiscuous girl. After a while she finally told him that she had two mothers (lesbians) and she never wanted anyone to ever think she was like them in that aspect. (I personally know the principal.)

    2. My mothers good high school friend has a daughter who is in a lesbian relationship and has many children. One of the little boys has asked Santa for a Daddy, and continues to desire a father.

    You want to tell me that its not harmful to children and I'll laugh in your face.

    Also, if your are really LDS saying our prophets have been wrong, you have issues and need to do some research. Polygamy and the blacks unable to have the priesthood were not mistakes.

    ReplyDelete
  10. I have to admit that I have been extremely surprised by the comments on both sides but mostly surprised that people have such strong opinions yet refuse to sign their name to them. If you don't have the courage to stand up for your opinions and be identified, please don't bother stating them. Hiding behind anonymity makes me think you are just playing devil's advocate.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hear that folks? If you don't sign your name, your thoughts don't count. That's cute, Mindy. Give me a break. Some of us just don't have accounts.

      Sincerely,
      Ashlynn <--happy?

      Delete
  11. Yes Ashlynn. That makes me happy. Its not too hard to get an account. I didn't say your thoughts don't count. I simply asked you to take accountability for them. You seem really upset about something and really ready to fight. Calm down and breathe. Life always looks better when you are calm.

    ReplyDelete